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  Soarer Central * Brakes * Installed new brake accumulator - need Help * Archive through September 16, 2009 Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 08:21 am, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Me thinks, all that's left is a wiring problem ie the signal from the DVS isn't getting to the pump or isn't over-riding the run signal.
It's probably the pump continuously running that's generating the alarm.
Just a thought that isn't based on any technical expertise.
I'd be really p**sed as you are because over here the guys that do the 6 monthly WOF checks wouldn't give it a road worthy pass.
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:35 am, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Peter T is right , its a relay locked on!.... the points can weld together as the pump uses high current.
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
92 TT & 95 TT

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:42 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have a lot of experience with the TRC on Soarers but could one of the sensors be stuck, try unplugging the TRC fuse and see if it stops the pump.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 03:43 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I removed the TRAC fuse and the pump kept running and a dash alarm came up.
I refitted it and removed the 40amp ABS no 2 fuse or relay (not sure which it is as it looks like a relay) and the pump stopped. Tried a 60amp from another circuit and the pump started up again and wouldn't stop so put it back together again. There is also an 60amp ABS no 1 relay or fuse, but it won't come out. seems to be held in someway. I originally thought it had welded itself in and this was the problem but none of the similar fuse/relays next to it will come out either. Must be another relay somewhere that activates the pump, but I have no idea where to look for it
Elizabeth Hogan
TryHard
western australia
V8 Limited edition

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 04:28 pm, by:  Elizabeth Hogan (Snowcatz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I received the brake accumulator from peter, havent had time putting it i yet as ive had appointments one after another.

Now i have been reading through the threads about the abs/traction relay.

I turned the car off, accumulator pump still running, i pulled out relay after relay without and difference except when i pulled out the green one for traction control.

i pulled out The trac/abs relay and the pump stopped.
Would this relay have been my problem all along?

Can anyone tell me if this relay has gone or what.

Liz
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
92 TT & 95 TT

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 04:48 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Try putting power to the relay (two wires from the battery) and see if it clicks, if it does its most likely working as it should if not then its probably jammed.
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 04:50 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Gary Redman wrote on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 03:43 pm:

I removed the TRAC fuse and the pump kept running and a dash alarm came up.
I refitted it and removed the 40amp ABS no 2 fuse or relay (not sure which it is as it looks like a relay) and the pump stopped. Tried a 60amp from another circuit and the pump started up again and wouldn't stop so put it back together again. There is also an 60amp ABS no 1 relay or fuse, but it won't come out. seems to be held in someway. I originally thought it had welded itself in and this was the problem but none of the similar fuse/relays next to it will come out either. Must be another relay somewhere that activates the pump, but I have no idea where to look for it




It might be a problem with the ABS controller.
Elizabeth Hogan
TryHard
western australia
V8 Limited edition

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 06:17 pm, by:  Elizabeth Hogan (Snowcatz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think i found my Problem, Gary worth a check.

Here is what i did with car off:
1: I pulled out the relays,motor was still pumping until i removed the green relay. Motor stopped pumping.

2: Put the green relay back in and the motor started pumping non stop, with car on or off.


Upload


3.Green cover on relay came off.

Upload


4: found that this metal piece was pushed in, when i pulled it out a little the pump stopped pumping.

Upload


There is no brake warning light, nothing so fingers crossed all OK.



LIZ
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 09:08 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

might be worth changing that relay some time in the future Liz, once they get pitted they can stick in.
Elizabeth Hogan
TryHard
western australia
V8 Limited edition

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 09:16 pm, by:  Elizabeth Hogan (Snowcatz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Dave will do, after all the trouble ive gone through and it turned out to be this little thing.

Will get another this week.
Liz
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 09:16 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nope I'm still in trouble. Had to pull all 3 of the relays out before the pump would stop. Then it started again as soon as I refitted the green one.
I can feel the relays operating when they are pushed back in, and the green sparks at the contacts when it goes in because it starts the pump again. Liz yours might have stopped because you might have damaged the relay. You need to check by applying the brake pedal a couple of times to see if the pump will still come on when it is needed.
I'm sick of mine and don't want to own the car anymore
Elizabeth Hogan
TryHard
western australia
V8 Limited edition

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:21 pm, by:  Elizabeth Hogan (Snowcatz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No all fine, turns off and on when it is supposed to.
No warning's either.

Brakes are fine, im going to change it any way.

Have you thought bout changing your relay to see if that is the problem, sorry stupid question.

Hope you get it sorted.
Liz
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 07:18 am, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary, I wonder if there's a couple of wires crossed over somewhere.
As it's running all the time the pressure is ok all the time but if some signal wire is crossed over then instead of sending a stop commend it's sending a start command.
Just an idea.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 08:37 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going to go oput on a limb and see if Newcastle Lexus will look at it. They did the transmission under warranty about 6 years ago so hopefully they will still look at Soarers now. Some Lexus dealers spit on Soarers but these guys have been OK in the past
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 11:00 am, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good luck then Gary.
Everything mechanical seems ok so I hope they don't waste time and money going down that track.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 11:17 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary what about the TRC computer.

I haven't seen this before but it is not impossible that it has failed output which drives the pump so it is on all the time.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 12:04 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thought of that also Damien so bought the computer out of that front cut at Alexandria and it made no difference. i also tried my ols engine computer as well on the off chance that it had some conterol but no luck.
Talked to Lexus this morning and they were helpfull abnd offerred to plug in their computer to check faults, but admitted they only have info on the US models, and nothing on the Japanese ones. They have referred me to an auto electrician that has worked on Soarers for them in the past so I booked the car in for next week. I just need to try and source some wiring diagrams for these circuits so if anyone can help out with these it would be appreciated.
Paul Knox
Tinkerer
QLD
uzz31's manual and auto

Posts: 15
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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 04:27 pm, by:  Paul Knox (Surreal) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't mean to hijack , but there are only 3 relays in there , i noticed on my car i have only 3 as well and thought i may be missing one , i think it is for TRAC , any got any info on this ?
Paul Knox
Tinkerer
QLD
uzz31's manual and auto

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 04:29 pm, by:  Paul Knox (Surreal) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think on the cover is states 2 for ABS and 2 for Traction control ?
Does everyone only have 3 relays and one empty ?
Elizabeth Hogan
TryHard
western australia
V8 Limited edition

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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 04:49 pm, by:  Elizabeth Hogan (Snowcatz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reading through the other threads, there are only three.

Liz
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
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Monday, September 14, 2009 - 09:23 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary pull the green relay out there are 4 slots in the bottom of the relay housing, with ing off you should have only one live if you have two feeds then its back to the pressure switch
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 08:35 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Dave, will check tonight.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 11:05 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK the green relay is not controlling the pump operation. It is the brown relay that is cycling the pump on and off at approx 10 second intervals continuously. The relay can be easily heard clicking in and out with the engine running and removing this relay obviously stops the pump. Still doesn't help because with it back in, the pump just goes back on cycling on and off at 10 second intervals, irrespective of whether the brake pedal is pushed or not.
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
92 TT & 95 TT

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 11:13 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IF you leave the relay out, will it just mean you don't have traction control?
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 12:37 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every 10 seconds.....sounds like , OFF pressure drops cuts in again, FULL pressure OFF and so on..etc.
So one feed only on green relay??
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 02:35 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No green relay had 2 feeds when I checked this morning.
If I leave the brown relay out I get a dash alarm. Is the accumulator pump required for normal braking too or only to do with ABS? Otherwise I still need it to operate
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 03:10 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You need the accumulator reserve of pressure for the ABS to do its thing.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 05:03 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So technically I can let the pump run as much as it likes until it burns itself out, and still have brakes, just no ABS, because I can live with that. At present we are restricting driving the car more than 10 kms in case the pumps overheats and carks it.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 05:36 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your brakes will be relatively useless if the accumulator doesn't get pressurised.

It effectively replaces the vacuum booster used on most other cars.

No pressure, no braking assistance, your brake pedal will make you think you are driving Fred Flinstone's car.
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 10:41 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

O.K. Gary so with ing off you have two feeds ?

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