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Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11352
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, February 19, 2010 - 01:04 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have found this thread to be interesting and thought provoking, but there were moments when it got a bit catty! PMS anyone? :-)
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 5212
Reg: 10-2005

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Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 10:10 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Must be the hot nights.
Shyam Purushothman
TryHard
Dorkland
2jzgte toyota Soarer

Posts: 448
Reg: 08-2005

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Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 07:49 am, by:  Shyam Purushothman (Zulu24) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Peter Nitschke wrote on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 01:04 pm:




why was the acronym PMS chosen?...........................................Because Mad Cow Disease was already taken:-)
Walter Gillmore
DieHard
QLD
TT JZZ30

Posts: 622
Reg: 07-2009

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Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 05:07 pm, by:  Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

interesting arguements here i dont think i read anywhere on this thread any mention of the heat dissipation that larger rotors and aluminium calipers provide. i may have to re-read all of this again. lol. meow!! so the main question is in my abs equiped TT should i go ahead and get ucf 4 pots? for the front?
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

Posts: 2368
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Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 07:40 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heat dissipation is not really a concern on a street car and especially not the tiny difference of a bigger rotor.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1459
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 07:55 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LS400 rotors have about 15% greater thermal mass, more vanes and larger surface area. In theory they should dissipate more heat faster and not get as hot during a braking event.

IMO the factory brakes fall short thermally and the only reason for upgrading for LS400 brakes is for thermal reasons not braking force.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11496
Reg: 11-2004

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Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 09:29 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have done track days at Mallala in 40+ degrees heat and the only thing I have noticed is the huge difference between pads when things get serious.

Mallala is considered to be the hardest track on brakes in Australia, so it's a fair place to test and pass comment.

My UZZ30 (V8) has TT fronts with DBA slotted rotors and with really good pads - NO fade!

Start changing the pads, and it's very noticeable some pads just get a bit soft but still keep working, others just give up after eg 4 laps.

With Ferodo DS2500 however, the TT brakes just keep feeling really strong, so I feel the callipers are up to the job as long as everything else is.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1460
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 09:47 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Peter pads have the greatest effect.

I personally wouldn't want to drive on DS2500's on the street so unless you want to swap the pads out for higher temp track LS400's do help in using nicer more streetable pads for dual purpose.

There are also other negatives to higher brake temps such as more likely to boil brake fluid, hotter wheel bearing temps, hotter tyres.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1461
Reg: 10-2005

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Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 09:50 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know where you can get titanium insulating plates to suit Toyota calipers.

They go between the pad backing plate and the caliper pistons helps to prevent heat transfer into the caliper and brake fluid.
Walter Gillmore
DieHard
QLD
TT JZZ30

Posts: 624
Reg: 07-2009

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Monday, March 29, 2010 - 02:17 am, by:  Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i could probably get some cut to suit. i had a sheet of 1.2mm titanium somewhere in my belongings. get a profile done at work and hit it with the plasma cutter, should be a fairly nice clean cut and finish. just gotta find the sheet, it aint cheap. lol

so whats the best pad for street use on a TT then? im looking at redoing my brakes as the disks are scored so pondering wether going to ls400 4 pots or just better pads and new slotted kangaroo paw rotors.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11500
Reg: 11-2004

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Monday, March 29, 2010 - 04:05 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lucas - cheaper than OEM as well. Great pad!
Costa Tsimiklis
TryHard
Victoria
386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094 :-O

Posts: 451
Reg: 07-2008

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Monday, March 29, 2010 - 01:55 pm, by:  Costa Tsimiklis (Driftshop) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1.5% carbon steel or a stainless steel sheet would be a good alternative compared if Ti is too expensive / not able to be found.

PS: love the sparks it makes when grinding it :-)

I've used EBC green stuff and I find they are much better than OEM, but not great for performance. I am running a Hawk HPS pad for the modified TT at the front and I am very happy with it. Bites well from cold, low dust and has much better performance than the EBC Green.
Walter Gillmore
DieHard
QLD
TT JZZ30

Posts: 625
Reg: 07-2009

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Monday, March 29, 2010 - 04:14 pm, by:  Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i got plenty a bit of stainless sheet. got a bit of laser etching on one side but meh. lol, give me a few more weeks at this new job then i'll hit them up for foreigners. :-)

cheers for the info guys. any part numbers for the pads? i dont mind the dust that ive read the lucas pads produce, i got black rims so it dont matter too much.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11501
Reg: 11-2004

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Monday, March 29, 2010 - 10:51 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hawk HPS failed badly at Mallala.
Walter Gillmore
DieHard
QLD
TT JZZ30

Posts: 629
Reg: 07-2009

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Monday, March 29, 2010 - 11:07 pm, by:  Walter Gillmore (Cl33pa) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how are the greddy pads? anyone have experience with these?
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1463
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 09:29 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stainless could be worth a shot as well.

Costa, greenstuff pads have the highest braking friction of any street pad I have seen but in the early days they didn't like the heat and fell apart.

This is supposed to be fixed and I know one person who has pushed them very hard and has no issues.

TRW Lucas pads are great daily pad they are the OEM pads for some european cars. If you are looking for something a bit better try the QFM A1RM's, they work from cold have slightly more stopping power and slightly more temperature range that Lucas pads. They also have less dust but the down side is they are harder on rotors than Lucas pads.
Scott Casey
TryHard
nsw
soarer v8

Posts: 447
Reg: 02-2008

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Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 02:09 pm, by:  Scott Casey (V8soarer_1991) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WRC - Technical on brakes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDqkwjartM8&feature=related
Costa Tsimiklis
TryHard
Victoria
386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094 :-O

Posts: 496
Reg: 07-2008

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 01:24 am, by:  Costa Tsimiklis (Driftshop) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had new and old EBC Green with slotted rotors - was not impressed with the setup. Upgraded to Hawk HPS - much happier for my style of driving and braking. I find the EBC Green dont have enough feedback or bite so I'm not as confident on them. Hawk HPS, to my senses, has a better bite and progressive feedback - they do not dull under hard braking loads. Paper specs are all well and good, but my basis for the above is my experience, so your results may vary :-)

I'm due to upgrade the pads on the daily - I'll probably go for a HPS again or QFM A1RM.

Celsior upgrade would be good, but new rotors + calipers and more BS, might as well upgrade to Supra TT brakes on the front for an extra $500-800.
Kevin Trac
TryHard
.nsw
jzz30

Posts: 482
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, May 31, 2010 - 07:47 am, by:  Kevin Trac (Menty) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would be the reccommended pads for the ls400 4 pot brakes?
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
E36 Coupe

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Monday, May 31, 2010 - 02:12 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used stock LS400 pads in mine, went fine.
Rainer Fritzsche
TryHard
NSW
98 vvti manual & 95 UZZ31

Posts: 254
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Monday, May 31, 2010 - 08:46 pm, by:  Rainer Fritzsche (Ryner) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Damian Ware wrote on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 09:29 am:

TRW Lucas pads are great daily pad they are the OEM pads for some european cars. If you are looking for something a bit better try the QFM A1RM's, they work from cold have slightly more stopping power and slightly more temperature range that Lucas pads. They also have less dust but the down side is they are harder on rotors than Lucas pads.




I've used Lucas TRW's too. Worked well on the track (wakefield Park). Perfectly fine on the street too. - Initial bite when cold is fine.
Kevin Trac
TryHard
.nsw
jzz30

Posts: 483
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, May 31, 2010 - 10:06 pm, by:  Kevin Trac (Menty) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was tossing between the Lucas pads or QFM pads.
Does anyone know the price difference?
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1523
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, May 31, 2010 - 10:38 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lucas pads about $100 QFM A1RM's about $120. I think I paid $120 for the lucas pads shipped.

Both are good pads and it depends on your application but IMO for a street car the Lucas pads are a better option (if you can live with a little extra dust) as there is more inital bite with less pedal application and they are very kind to rotors.

A1RM's stop very well under harder braking and work well from cold, less dust and a little harder on rotors.
Ron Bassett
TryHard
Victoria
v8 LTD

Posts: 111
Reg: 04-2007

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Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 08:25 am, by:  Ron Bassett (Ron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damian, what was the supplier of the Lucas pads and the part number you ordered (I assume you are saying LS400 pads)
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1525
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Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 09:05 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GSL RallySport I have purchased about 10 sets of pads from them to suit different cars and testing alternative options for my uzz32.

There service is exceptional.

Speak to Greg drop my name and I'm sure he will do you a great deal.

http://www.gslrallysport.com/shop/

Something to add the QFM A1RM's are not available off the shelf to suit LS400 4 pots, they can be made to suit typically takes 6 weeks.

I don't have the part numbers on hand but I do them, I will look it up when I have a chance.
Mark Tierney
TryHard
NSW
Soarer GTT, Celsior, Duc

Posts: 481
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 10:59 am, by:  Mark Tierney (Mark_t) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My QFM's were actually cut & arrived in about a week. (LS400/Celsior 4 pots need custom cutting). I suppose it depends on QFM's workload, although there were extremely big on help, service & delivery speed (also thanks to Dave Cazes)

They are expensive, however you get what you pay for & have no dust.
..they were about $170 for the fronts & I have kept the TT calipers on the rear & thus the rear pads were about $130. ($130 per end for standard TT calipers)

Celsior 4 pot front calipers +slotted rotors all round + QFM pads all round +Motul RBF600 fluid +Maltech braided lines = awesome stopping power, even when cold.

Lucas have lots of dust. They are however half the price of QFM's
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1526
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 11:36 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Depends on production runs as to how long they will take to make.

As to no dust which QFM pads are you using, with the A1RM's the rotor slots are full of brake pad material.

They have less dust than Lucas pads but they are certainly do have dust.
Mark Tierney
TryHard
NSW
Soarer GTT, Celsior, Duc

Posts: 482
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 12:23 pm, by:  Mark Tierney (Mark_t) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ive got the HPX pads, better for streeting & dont require warming up. Normal/street driving sees (edit)"virtually no dust", although it may be different if I hit the track with them.

HPX are lower temp(550-650 degree) than the racing A1RM's (780-850 degree rating), that do need a little warming up for responsiveness. The A1RM's are supposed to be the biz for track days.

Great pads. Very happy.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1528
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 01:01 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark HPX pads are totally different to the A1RM's different compound poorer in performance, much cheaper they are intended to be a budget slightly better than OEM replacement pad. They are 0-550 deg rated with 0.42u vs 0-780 deg and 0.48u for the A1RM's. HPX pads are about $79 for a set.


IMO I wouldn't even consider the HPX compound when it costs more (when custom cut to suit LS400 4 pots) and doesn't perform as well (less friction and temperature range) than lucas pads. Lucas pads are available off the shelf and they are a better pad if you can live with some dust.

QFM produce the HPX in a lot more alternative shapes so they were probably able to cut you a compound to suit were as the A1RM's need to be manufactured.

QFM can manufacture any of there compounds in any shape provide you can supply backing plates but the lead time is about 6 weeks depending on there production runs.
Mark Tierney
TryHard
NSW
Soarer GTT, Celsior, Duc

Posts: 483
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 01:51 pm, by:  Mark Tierney (Mark_t) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ahh yup, my bad, right you are. Just checked my receipts & they are the A1RMs (780's), $190 for the 4 pots for the fronts.
The HPX's are on the rears
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1529
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 03:16 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A1RM's are dusty similar to Lucas the big difference is the dust is lighter grey where as Lucas pads produce a very dark dust.

The slots in my rotors keep filling up with A1RM pad material.

PS why use a lower temp pad in the rear?
Mark Tierney
TryHard
NSW
Soarer GTT, Celsior, Duc

Posts: 484
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 04:03 pm, by:  Mark Tierney (Mark_t) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Celsior needed pads & rotors at the same time...purely a budgetary constraint.
When I have my next cash surplus, I'll upgrade to Supra rears. I'll grab them then.
No complaints with the current setup though.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1531
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 09:24 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fair enough,

regarding getting what you pay for TRW Lucas pads are one of the best pads in the world that had more R&D than any other brake pad in history so I have read. Over 100 million was spent on there development they are a semi-ceramic pad which ceramic pads in other brands typically cost over $300.

They are only cheap as they are an OEM pad for many many different cars and made in massive qtys.

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