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Lawrence Tan
Newbie
NSW
91 UZZ31 v8

Posts: 1
Reg: 08-2012

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 05:59 am, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all

I have just recently acquired a 91 UZZ31 and what a joy it is. I am in the process of ironing out all the little bugs with it to bring it back to its former glory.

I've spent the last few days reading up any brake related articles that I can. Problem is that at the moment my brakes do work but it requires a fair bit of pressure and a lot of brake pedal travel before they fully engage. Ie at a traffic stop I need to press quite firmly for the car to stay still( this is compared to my other car a Mazda 2).

I've had a look at the discs and pads, they aren't in the best condition but still have life left in them.

The fluid looks like a dark orange brown which doesn't look like it has been changed in awhile.

If I pump the brakes a few times when the car is off , switching it to on I can hear the brake pump whirring away for 10-20 seconds and then it stops.

The nitrogen accumulator I have no idea to check.

At this stage I'm really hoping its just air in the old fluid and that a fluid change is the way to go? Fingers crossed that master cylinder and nitrogen accumulator are okay.

Has anyone else had similar issues to what I described?
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1180
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 06:52 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you not getting errors on the dash, and the pump is not running continuous, the accumulator is ok.

you can do this

http://www.planetsoarer.com/mediumbrakes/masterbleed.htm

and then bleed each brake at the slave cylinder.


(your fluid looks like it needs replacing so the bleeding will get that job done)
Lawrence Tan
Newbie
NSW
91 UZZ31 v8

Posts: 3
Reg: 08-2012

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 07:29 am, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Tom

Will bleed it on Friday following that guide first and see how that goes.

Only dash Warning I get is the fluid level sensor one which I'll clean as well while I'm at it.

Will update thread Friday and see how it goes
Daryl Demarte
TryHard
Victoria
IS300 & UZZ32

Posts: 138
Reg: 04-2006

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 10:08 am, by:  Daryl Demarte (Helieng) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lawrence,

Make sure you use only dot 3 brake fluid, otherwise you will have problems with seals(specially the accumulator) down the track.
Lawrence Tan
Newbie
NSW
91 UZZ31 v8

Posts: 4
Reg: 08-2012

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 10:32 am, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Daryl

oh that's interesting, all the guides seem to point to DOT4 fluids.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1183
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 11:22 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not think dot4 was available when the soarer was built Dot 3 was used.

I think the difference is in temp, dot 4 can handle higher temp. Maybe some diff in condensation too, not sure.

Also not sure on dot4 damaging the seals.
Lawrence Tan
Newbie
NSW
91 UZZ31 v8

Posts: 5
Reg: 08-2012

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 11:36 am, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've read some more into this, the boiling point of DOT 4 is easy enough to understand. and DOT5 is a no no because of it being silicone based rather than glycol based.

there seems to be a following of people using Castrol super response DOT4 as its compatible with DOT 3 applications.

To fully protect the seals would it be better just to stick to DOT3. The car is a weekender for cruising so it wont see much spirited driving.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12386
Reg: 11-2004

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Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 07:14 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's probably more important to replace the fluid regularly than to worry about DOT3 or 4.

Decent pads - eg Lucas will make a huge difference to the feel of the brakes also.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 6754
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, August 17, 2012 - 06:23 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been using Castrol Response for 8 years with no problems - 3 flushes in that time. Also used it on my UZZ30 before that, again no problems.
Lawrence Tan
Tinkerer
NSW
91 UZZ31 v8

Posts: 6
Reg: 08-2012

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Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:34 pm, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just had a chance to look at the car properly.

I had a look at the brake fluid level sensor and it had gunky orange brake fluid inside. I cleaned it out and warning is now gone.

From inspecting the fluid in the reservoir it appears to be very clear and light amber in colour, so i'm in two minds about bleeding it.

went for a quick drive and I'm trying to determine whether the v8 brakes just feel crap in general or if its air.

Its hard to describe, the initial bite isn't there. It requires more brake pedal travel for it to start braking.

thoughts ? i'm basing the above in comparison to my mazda 2
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12392
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, August 17, 2012 - 02:31 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As it's all unknown, do a flush and get some good pads. Lucas are cheap <$100 for fronts.

Brakes are the best investment on a car.
Lawrence Tan
Tinkerer
NSW
91 UZZ31 v8

Posts: 7
Reg: 08-2012

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Friday, August 17, 2012 - 06:23 pm, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

okay update

Done a full flush, starting with the 3 bleed valves on reservoir / pump assembly. then followed by all 4 wheels from furthest to closest.

I used PBR Dot 3 fluid and turns out the stuff is blue as well, nice and easy to see the difference.

Suprisingly the guide suggested 5x500ml bottles, but I did the whole job using only 2.

old fluid was more manky then i thought. It was almost like bleeding out coke from the system.

I was quite careful in making sure there wasn't any air returning in the system as well.

Overall result..... brakes feel probably 5-10% better. not much of a difference really.

my nitrogen accumulator and master cylinder seem fine as well. maybe its time to invest into the 1JZ TT front brakes and rotors?

if thats too pricey, I may give the lucas pads a go on new rotors as well.

any advice?
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 6756
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, August 20, 2012 - 10:01 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most people who drive my Soarer comment that the brakes are "touchy" compared to their (ordinary saloon car) brakes

My UZZ30 had pretty dull brakes that often struggled to pull the car up when I first got it - changing the pads and rotors sorted that out - the old pads must have been super hard, and the old rotors were nearing end of life - pretty much right on minimum thickness.

Recently replaced the front rotors on my JZZ31, along with the brake lines & pads - I've not noticed anything when driving this time, but then the old pads were good quality.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12396
Reg: 11-2004

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Monday, August 20, 2012 - 08:16 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pads! There has been so much written about how they can improve the braking system. Just do it.
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
2003 Ford Fairmont Ghia BA 6 cyl.

Posts: 7682
Reg: 05-2005

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 09:10 am, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Peter Nitschke wrote on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 08:16 pm:

Just do it.



Nike ?
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 6759
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 11:51 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I put Lucas pads on the front last time after reading so much about them here - they are pretty dusty but they are great street pads - work well from cold which is what I want. I'll do the same for the rear next time they are due (and will do the rotors at the same time, as they are probably also close to their use-by thickness)
Lawrence Tan
Tinkerer
NSW
91 UZZ31 V8

Posts: 15
Reg: 08-2012

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 12:54 pm, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you have the Lucas pad numbers?

I have stock uzz31 v8 setup

Pad part no# I've found are
DB1209 fronts
DB1396 rears

Spoke to brakesdirect / gslrallysport, they couldn't find matching Lucas part numbers.

Probably will end up getting QFM HPX pads, awesome street pads from previous experience.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 6762
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 07:07 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No sorry I don't have the part numbers any more. They are listed on this site somewhere though.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
Accord Euro Luxury

Posts: 480
Reg: 09-2005

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Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 09:24 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lawrence, the original V8 were really only average to start with.
The best mod is to change the front calipers and discs to TT ones which are bigger.
Then with a good set of pads you will be better off.
Lawrence Tan
Tinkerer
NSW
91 UZZ31 V8

Posts: 41
Reg: 08-2012

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 12:16 pm, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a update

So all activity to date.

- Bleed all the old stuff out, replaced with DOT3 fluid as I wanted to stay within manufacturers limits.

- Replaced all 4 rotors with new RDA ones just standard stuff

- Replaced all pads with QFM HPX, pretty much just bendix ultimate alternatives.

Brakes still feel the same, still takes more brake pedal travel for brakes to start biting compared to other cars I've been in .

Next on the list is the TRC Nitrogen Accumulator. I've read lots about people replacing them or regassing them.

but I havent heard much on the symptoms of old worn or leaky ones. will regassing the accumulator improve the feel of the brakes ?

I'm not keen on swapping to TT brakes until I'm sure of what the problem is.

if all is well and the v8 brakes are that crap, then its something ill just live with.

At this point im not aware of any leaks or faults with my master cylinder.
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
'97 JZZ30, '12 ZN6

Posts: 4178
Reg: 09-2007

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 01:38 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lawrence I have found that v8 soarers with TRC have long pedal travel compared to normal vaccum based systems. getting a functional TRC Nitrogen Accumulator would definitely improve pedal feel, as will steel braided brake hoses
Lawrence Tan
Tinkerer
NSW
91 UZZ31 V8

Posts: 42
Reg: 08-2012

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 02:27 pm, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank Ali

Further digging around reveals they are only a replacement item. I read up on a few guys in NSW getting them valved and regassed by Peter Taplin but I'm not sure if this is still available?

Any contacts would be appreciated.
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
'97 JZZ30, '12 ZN6

Posts: 4181
Reg: 09-2007

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 03:05 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as I know Lawrence, his service is still available.
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 878
Reg: 10-2007

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Friday, September 14, 2012 - 08:22 am, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also intend on offering this service (will hopefully start next week)

I've noticed after a re gassing the pedal is firm even with just resting your foot on the brake pedal and is like that the whole way through.
Lawrence Tan
Tinkerer
NSW
91 UZZ31 V8

Posts: 43
Reg: 08-2012

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Friday, September 14, 2012 - 09:47 am, by:  Lawrence Tan (Tonkatsu) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Guys

Couldn't find much contact details for Peter Taplin. Seems like he hasn't logged on here for a while.

@Shane
Please drop me a PM if you plan on offering the service, I'm keen!

from your description, makes sense. A recharged accumulator should provided greater brake assist.

Plan is to have accumulator regassed, then braided steel lines if need be since they are relatively cheap as well.

TT brakes are not in consideration anymore.
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 880
Reg: 10-2007

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Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 07:11 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

started a new thread in brake section lawrence, have a read
Peter Smith
Newbie
NSW
uzz32

Posts: 4
Reg: 10-2012

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Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 07:19 pm, by:  Peter Smith (Smithie123) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi can any body tell me what this problem may be(apart from buying a soarer)At idle my brake accumulater moves back and forwards and a relay on the passenger side makes a click sound at the same time?Any ideas?Thanks
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI

Posts: 2083
Reg: 03-2007

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Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 10:07 am, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It also runs when you are driving infact it runs all the time ,it will burn out the pump if you do not get it recharged ,contact Shane above!!
Shane Haverkamp
DieHard
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 905
Reg: 10-2007

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Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 03:48 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what do you mean your accumulator moves back and forth?

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