Monday, September 01, 2008 - 06:18 pm, by: Maurice Diggler(Mau_rice)
Shell V-Power Racing 100 octane fuel is being phased out as we speak which leaves me in a spot of bother considering I've had my car tuned to the 100 octane stuff and like the peace of mind having the extra knock protection it provides over 98 octane...
I just noticed that United servos are offering their high performance 100 octane fuel at a servo near me and I don't know what to make of it or if it's any good...
Shell's fuel was 99% of the time $1.80 per litre and was 5% ethanol and I didn't have anything bad to say about it, never had any bad batches and my car run like a dream on it, United's new stuff is 10% ethanol but only $1.45 per litre... The cheap price scares me.
Has anyone used it? I am concerned about consistency...
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 07:39 pm, by: Kyle Wathen(Cspot)
At $1.45 I would be sceptical...
Just did a search and found this info i remember reading a while ago...
"Ethanol is just simply not as good a fuel as petroleum, it produces a little over 50% of the power petrol does when it is combusted. So by adding ethanol to petrol you are effectively diluting it.
The ron rating (when comparing straight petroleum and a petroleum/ethanol mix) only tells you how the fuel will burn and how it will resist pinging, not the quality or energy produced when burnt. So basically the petrol/ethanol mix will still burn like any other 98ron fuel but will produce less energy."
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 07:47 pm, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
Im pretty sure you will have to retune to suit the 5% ethanol change mate... I dont think you can just drop it in as the shell 100 wasnt just a 98 fuel with 5% ethanol, it was formulated specifically.
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 08:02 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
I have not checked the 50% comment but all others are
You use more ethanol to do the same thing as the same volume of petrol, so buying it more cheaply does not mean you have a payoff.
Diesel cars are more economical than petrol cars but diesel fuel is more expensive, owing to taxation I suspect. Diesel takes less processing than petrol and should be cheaper to produce. In Europe it costs less than petrol, hence the fact that while you sit in your preferred European cafe watching the cars go by, half of them will be diesels.
I have not touched on ethanol subsidies ("ridiculous" is hovering in my mind) or the international societal impacts of demand pressures between food and energy.
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 09:07 pm, by: Charlie Ters(Ul05st)
i read on the ethanol petroluem (governement) site that 2jz motors (or i think pre93 supras) strongly advise against ethanol usage as the fuel lines break down, causing engine fires and damage...... isnt the 1jz exactly the same setup?
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 09:19 pm, by: Maurice Diggler(Mau_rice)
Pre-93 Supras = 7M's and 1G's. The old 80's engines, I heard about the fuel lines too, but that's on E85 fuels with much higher ethanol percentage... I doubt 5-10% will kill anything. Although, I'm happy to be the crash test dummy lol.
James Johnson Goo Roo Victoria 92 TT , and 93 TT Manual
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 09:37 pm, by: James Johnson(Jamesy)
in the owners manual for the soarers v8 or TT it says ethanol up to 10% is ok.
morgan id just tune it for 98 really i don't see that 100 octane doing all that much.
my rough idea is that the extra 2 octane of knock protection probably doesn't out weighs the less bang (force ,power) you get out of the 5% ethanol in the mix and extra $$ you spend on it.
Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:21 pm, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
David Vaughan wrote on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 08:05 pm:
How do you know, please? It sounds like a simple production solution.
David a Rep from Shell explained it all in the Supra Forums... will try and find the post with the info in it someday soon...
Otherwise you could buy ethanol, 98 octane fuel and mix it yourself to create " 100 octane " fuel. but the 5% ethanol wasnt the only thing that gave it the 100 octane over V power 98...
Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 09:17 am, by: Graham Dollisson(Alloyvee)
I used their Boost 98 E10 for 2 years with no ill effects so I doubt that 100 E10 would give any problems. Give it a go!! They must be using a slightly higher octane base fuel, compared to Boost 98.
Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 09:22 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Towards the end of my drag racing I used Shell 100 and then put in wynns octane booster on top of that. My 11.4 run was this combo.
Ignition vs Time
Knock vs time
As you can see with the ignition graph, I ran a stupid amount of timing at high boost and rpm. Just at the 11.4 mark on the good run, shows around 20 degrees of advance, 24psi of boost and about 6600rpm on the tach. The knock values are pretty good, some spikes to 100 or so, but nothing constant which means it was just random engine noise, except for that pink 11.9 run got a little noisey at the end. I believe that run was only 98 ron fuel with booster.
Yep shell stuff is pretty good fuel, will it use to be, don't sell it any more from what i've seen.
Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 11:14 am, by: Maurice Diggler(Mau_rice)
This was quoted from a member of Supra Forums with a decent 2JZ single set up...
"I have an interesting anecdote about VPower Racing. I've been using it in my car since I got it back on the road with the Haltech and cams, and it has a tune from a big-power 2JZ which was running on 30% toluene. It ran fairly well on 16psi, too rich but made good power.
Anyway, since Shell is phasing out VPower Racing I decided to fill up on BP Ultimate last night to see how it goes on that. After leaving the servo I gave it a hit as I merged onto the freeway, and as soon as the turbo started making a bit of boost the engine started pinging. It has never done that on VPower Racing. So based on that experience it seems the ethanol really does make a difference to knock resistance."
I might just have to run my tank empty, my local still has V Power Racing so when that runs out I'll pump this new United stuff in... Anyone got a spare 1JZ motor laying around? lol
Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 07:02 pm, by: Cihan Aday(Cihan)
Morgs, i would suggest that comparison is flawed because a/ anecdotal evidence is inconsistent and detracts from the truths of human observation amongst other things, and b/ because the timing map was most likely way off to begin with.
Speaking in terms of a mild 1JZ / 2JZ engine platform; A map for 98RON fuel, and a map for 100RON + toluene should be about similar until 12-15psi where ideal advance can't be run for a given air fuel ratio and torque vs RPM output.
Since he noticed the detonation as soon as it came on to boost, the timing map was clearly well past ideal ignition and making no more power than it would have on 98 or lower RON with perfect (ideal) timing.
In your case, the difference between 100RON Shell fuel and 100RON United i wouldn't worry about in terms of advance / pinging, but i would consider its effect on AFR's / long term longevity. Give me a call and we'll go for a drive to check things over.
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