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Archive through April 12, 2006	Daniel Czechowski	25	1
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Matthew Sharpe
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North Island
3.0 GT

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 01:23 pm, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

Of course, he's not going to get much more power out of his N/A 3 litre without huge cash outlay, where as you have a huge array of cheep upgrades to choose from.

David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
UZZ31 V8 manual and Lexus IS300

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 01:35 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

Last I saw the 330i or 330Ci had a 3 litre engine of 170kW, not a 3.2 found in the M3, and is advertised to weigh in at 1505kg, identical with the IS300. Either his car was tricked up or you need to look to your tuning Daniel

. I believe the next model out has 190kW.

Daniel Czechowski
DieHard
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 01:52 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Oh geez I can't remember the exact specifics, I'm not all that into beemers, just repeating what he told me, maybe he said 'similar' I don't know now. Either way he had roughly same performance in his car as I did in mine. And I don't think my car needed a tune, around that time we also did the dyno day, it had the highest power output out of all TT stockies there... 211.6 rwhp so hmmm. I know, embarrasing. I don't think he's modified his car at all, maybe he bought it with some chip and he didnt even know it, who knows

But to be honest, I spend few dollars on an exhaust, or even 50 bux on a second hand cheap boost controller and I would have had him hehehe. Love the 1J!!!

David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
UZZ31 V8 manual and Lexus IS300

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 02:23 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

I have a keen interest in the things because it is the car with which I compare the IS300, hence my chip to catch up on the grunt front after my previous work to out-handle any of the little fleas (common as...).

The engine is the same basic motor in both the Beamers, just differences in capacity and details.

Ollie Ernst
DieHard
ACT
Soarer V8 Limited

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:32 pm, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

Matthew Sharpe wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 12:41 pm:
only done 120,000k's and leather was falling to bits, interior door handles falling apart etc.

And of course that NEVER happens on a Soarer.

If you're going to pick on anything in another car, DON'T make it interior trim. If there's one thing I've found is utter ••••• on a Soarer, it's the trim. Even on some 96 models.

Also, there have been plenty of threads on here where uninformed people voiced their opinions on (bagged) other makes/models of cars. Don't get so bent out of shape when other people do it too.

Ollie Ernst
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ACT
Soarer V8 Limited

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:25 pm, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

And before anyone says "but BMWs cost WAY more than a Soarer" go away and research the NEW car price on a Soarer when it was released and then work out what that's worth in today's dollars. Don't forget to add the same amount of import duty that the BMW is subjected to.

Also the argument "my TT is nearly as quick as my mate's 330Ci" isn't valid either. You're comparing an NA car with a turbo car. See how the normally aspirated 2JZ JZZ Soarer goes against the 330Ci and then come back and tell us. Also see how the Soarer in stock trim goes through the mountain twisties against the 330Ci. I dare say you'll be telling a whole different story. If you're going to make comparisons, at least make them rationally and with some validity, otherwise you're doing exactly the same as the people you are paying out in this thread.

I'm not going on a pro-BMW rant or trying to criticise anyone. Just trying to say the thread isn't balanced and that Soarer owners are just as guilty of being less than subjective when this subject comes up.

Daniel Czechowski
DieHard
Western Australia
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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:49 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Ollie Ernst wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:25 pm:
Also the argument "my TT is nearly as quick as my mate's 330Ci" isn't valid either. You're comparing an NA car with a turbo car. See how the normally aspirated 2JZ JZZ Soarer goes against the 330Ci and then come back and tell us. Also see how the Soarer in stock trim goes through the mountain twisties against the 330Ci. I dare say you'll be telling a whole different story. If you're going to make comparisons, at least make them rationally and with some validity, otherwise you're doing exactly the same as the people YOU are paying out in this thread.

Hey Ollie man, what are you getting all defensive for?

Firstly what I meant to say is that you wouldn't consider the 330ci to be in the same 'sports' class as the TT, at least I didn't till now. Before that I used to think it is just some luxo coupe with the usual 6 cyl engine. I was actually paying the 330ci a complement by saying how surprised I was that it does actually have guts to match my stock TT.

Secondly, since you're now comparing the 330ci to a JZZ31, it's like me comparing a JZZ30 to a 318i only in reverse. How about that, see anything wrong here? Thought so.

Thirdly, I know how much the 330ci cost new, and I know how much the Soarer cost new. You must have misread my post. The point I was trying to make is that right now (2006 to be correct) the average price of the soarer is 13K, and the 330ci is somewhere in the 60s give or take. Now trying to interpret the logic of your argument, I should be comparing a 1992 beemer in that case then. Woohoo, let me go back in time and find a 330ci equivalent of that era. If I did, that beemer would choke on the soarer's dust and you know it. Yet here we have a car 10 years older and it still matches something much more modern.

The moral of the story, you missed my point Ollie.

Daniel Czechowski
DieHard
Western Australia
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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:55 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Mind you, my above posts weren't intended to 'prove' that Soarer's better than a 330ci, I just wrote it as an example of someone that has the wrong idea about our cars and bags them without experiencing first hand. Nowhere in my posts did I say the 330ci is a bad car, I like them, I've driven it and it is a great car too. I was just... oh never mind...

Morgan Cross
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Melbourne
Soarer TT

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 06:03 pm, by: Morgan Cross (Morgan)

Here here. I agree with you 110% Ollie. You guys bitch more than the people you are bitching about.

Daniel Clarke
Tinkerer
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 06:15 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Hehe, My mate owns an 02 BMW 330 coupe. He couldnt wait to go for a run in my TT... Was curious how fast it would be. I have driven his Hard through some nice windy roads and i must say, no way my TT could keep up, even though Mine SPANKS him in a Straight line!
But you cant really compare them head to head as they are from different era's and different classes...
Im not biased against any cars. I was always a ford man( i know, laugh at me as you should,hehe) But in my time not once did i talk down a nice holden if it were nice!

I am an admirer of vehicles, no matter what brand! We all like different things and i take my hat off to a person who has put blood/sweat and tears into whatever they are passionate about

Ollie Ernst
DieHard
ACT
Soarer V8 Limited

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 06:28 pm, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

Daniel Czechowski wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:49 pm:
Hey Ollie man, what are you getting all defensive for?

Dude, I'm not getting defensive. Just trying say the comparisons are not equal and as a result not valid.

Daniel Czechowski wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:49 pm:
Secondly, since you're now comparing the 330ci to a JZZ31, it's like me comparing a JZZ30 to a 318i only in reverse. How about that, see anything wrong here? Thought so.

How is it that when you're comparing a TWIN TURBO 6 to an NA6 and that when I suggest a fairer comparison would be to compare an NA JZZ Soarer with the 330Ci which are both NA6s with almost identical displacement and I believe the NA6 Soarer was available into the 2nd half of the 90s, that I'm the one that doesn't get it?

Yes the 91 TT Soarer goes well for a 15 year old car and yes it's nearly as quick as the 330Ci, but if you want to take it a step closer in comparison, take a 98 VVTI Turbo Soarer which sells currently for around 30K, goes hardly any (if any) better than the 91 TT and the comparison starts to look closer.

You can compare what you like to make it look like you have good value. Hell, I could find VL Turbos that pre-date your Soarer and go just as, if not harder, and cost a damn sight less. I used to own one. Does that make the VL value? In the eyes of the VL driver it does. No it doesn't have all the extras (although a Calais is doing OK) but performance wise it's not a bad option. And it's an 88 model or earlier. See what I'm getting at? Yes I realise it's a 4 door so again the comparison is skewed but given we were comparing based on performance I figure it's close enough.

Also, if I want to make a favourable comparison for the $60K 2000 model 330Ci, compare it to the current 2006 Soarer equivalent here, the Lexus SC430 at $161K and I'm sure the performance is close enough to suddenly make the 330Ci look like the value bet.

Daniel Czechowski
DieHard
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 06:52 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Ok, no where in my posts did I compare the cars directly, apart from explaining the kw/tonne issue, I did not say anywhere in my post that either the soarer or the 330ci was better. I just had a quick glance and I'm sorry, I just can't see it, so I have no idea what you are reading there.

The point I was trying to make (for the fourth time now) is that there was a certain 330ci owner stating unresearched/unexperienced claims that apparently the soarer is slow, while at the same time (during the night) saying that the 330ci is hell quick. I used that example to show that both cars have equal performance give or take, and (while trying to get back on topic here) that he was soarer-bashing for no reason, and that I had to show him that the soarer is not slow as he claims it is. I mean if he reckons it is, then how can he think the 330ci is quick? I wasn't comparing the two cars directly, I was just trying to convey my experiences with soarer-bashing like all others here did. So I don't know why you went so far off topic, I mean you're form ACT not WA, we are the off-topic masters hehe

And yes, I also like lots of cars, and I'm not narrow minded. I had to make a choice which car to get as I just can't afford all of them at once

Ollie Ernst
DieHard
ACT
Soarer V8 Limited

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 07:16 pm, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

OK. I got a LITTLE sidetracked.

Mind you, if your mate with the BMW is basing his opinion of Soarer performance on stock V8s he's seen around, he might have reason to believe his car's a better performance package. I wouldn't like to try to keep one in sight in our V8 Limited.

David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
UZZ31 V8 manual and Lexus IS300

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 07:51 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

quote:
SC430

Toyota presents its Lexus IS series as the direct competitor to the BMW 3-series, not the SC series. If you look at the size and handling package, it makes more sense.

Ollie Ernst
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ACT
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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 08:05 pm, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

I was making the comparison based on the fact that they are both 2 door luxury sports oriented packages, although one is a coupe and the other a convertible. I would say the IS series is more a direct competitor for the 4 dour 3 series BMW models than the "Ci" range. Remember that BMW also make a convertible 3 series which differs little from the 2 door hardtop equivalent and as such I would assume they (2 door 3 series in general) were in direct competition (or as much as any BMW is) with the SC430.

David Vaughan
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ACT
UZZ31 V8 manual and Lexus IS300

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Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 08:41 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

BMW xxxi/Ci is still just a 3-Series -- platform, engine, suspension, anything but a bit of body style. Unrelated to an SC class of car. Toyota just happen not to do a 2-door or convertible IS.

Matthew Sharpe
DieHard
North Island
3.0 GT

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 06:58 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

I think Ollie wants a 330

And my ex's car was (at the time) 7 years old and VISUALLY falling to bits at 120,000 k's. My current pov pac '96 has a couple of the usual problems, but its 10 years old, and unless you really know where to look, it still looks pretty new. Of course it could just be that the previous owner of the 320 had neglected and abused it - but I'm yet to be impressed with "German build quality" at least in their low and mid-range cars.

Ollie Ernst
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ACT
Soarer V8 Limited

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 10:51 am, by: Ollie Ernst (Oli_g)

Yeah I'd take a 330 if it was in my price range. My brother-in-law has a a manual 330Ci and it's a damn nice car. Has none of the issues you mentioned your ex's car has Matt. Black with nice tan interior. Beautiful car and goes bloody well. Having said that, I'm not about to go out and plonk down 60K on one.

Any car will look crap if it's not looked after. I've seen 3 year old cars that look like crap because they're lease cars and the owners know they'll just offload them at the end of the lease and get another new one. Also seen a number of late model Soarers in poor nick with the usual cracked vents, door trim self destructing and crap leather. Doesn't mean all Soarers are rubbish. Although the trim design and quality is certainly sub par for a car of it's otherwise excellent quality.

It's not really fair to judge an entire marque on the one or two examples of it that you may have seen. Having said that, I AM aware that BMW have a significantly high warranty return rate and some models do certainly have "issues".

Matthew Sharpe
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Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:20 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

I guess the 330 is a fair bit more up market than the 320.

I actually test drove a 318 a few years back too, (it made sense at the time as I had a very small garage) but it was just too gutless in the auto and I couldnt find a manual anywhere.

I think if I was in that kind of league, I'd probably be more interested in spending the extra money for a Merc. One of the board of directors at work has a beautiful SL55 that I'd happily own - OK I know they are a couple of hundred thou +, but might as well dream big!

It'd be hard to chose between that and a XK Jag...

Dave Storrie
Tinkerer
QLD
JZZ30 TT

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Friday, April 14, 2006 - 09:48 am, by: Dave Storrie (Casp3r)

Aye, the only chink in the SC's armour that I'm aware of is the interior trim, once you've spent some time trying to get hold of a second hand drivers side door trim you will understand exactly that. Hard to believe in a car that was 120k new, but meh, they are only 10k now, so I aint complaining.

BTW ANYONE WHO HAS DRIVERS SIDE DOOR TRIM IN SPRUCE CONTACT ME :P

Mike Triggs
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Norfolk Island
3.0GT G-Pack

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Friday, April 14, 2006 - 01:08 pm, by: Mike Triggs (Mikeandimah)

Ollie Ernst wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:32 pm:

Ollie Ernst wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:32 pm:
And of course that NEVER happens on a Soarer. If you're going to pick on anything in another car, DON'T make it interior trim. If there's one thing I've found is utter ••••• on a Soarer, it's the trim. Even on some 96 models.

I'd rate Soarer trim as the best I've ever seen. Most of the problems I've seen (other than the door trim cracking, which hasn't happened on the '97) are related to ham-fisted disassembly and horrible pollution-laden air in Japan.

Having owned Holden, other Toyota (Au delivered) Tata and Subaru, the Soarer is streets ahead. It's way ahead of our other import, the Wizard (Isuzu) which is a '99 model. The Subaru started to literally fall apart although it remained visually OK (if you like hard, dark grey plastic).

Whenever I've worked on trim I've been astounded at the quality and the way it all fits together (when the correct procedure is used