| Author |
Message |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3090
Reg: 07-2005
|
Had Vardis' car on the rollers yesterday to produce 377rwkw and 9000N of tractive effort in 4th gear with standard ignition coils and plugs at 0.7mm. Plugs gapped to 0.8mm it was down 17-20rwkw and a made significantly less torque in the midrange.
I'd say this is about the limit for standard coilpacks with standard igniter and no ignition amplifiers.
Although there is no misfiring / spark blowout - complete combustion isn't achieved so power and fuel are wasted.
Next upgrade is 6 x Bosch coils which should see 390rwkw as is, and well over 400rwkw with the boost up. This should allow us to run 1.1mm gap and any air fuel and timing combination we need for longevity. |
George Funa
TryHard
NSW
Soarer TT
Posts: 302
Reg: 05-2006
|
Cihan
Great to see you assisting Vardis' in getting some awesome power out of his Soarer . It will be interesting to see what difference the Bosch coils make. Out of curiosity, can the bosch coils work with a piggyback ecu or can it only work with a stand alone ecu |
Steven Nanevski
Goo Roo
New South Wales
BF Ford Falcon XR8 MKII
Posts: 2124
Reg: 07-2005
|
What about these????
http://www.superspark.com.au/producttoyota.htm
Just seen them on e-bay, don't know if anyone has used them yet... |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3127
Reg: 07-2005
|
Actually George, they work with the standard ignitor hence standard ECU also.
Steven, I approached Jamie i believe from Superspark with an offer to test his coilpacks on Vardis' car for back to back comparison at the limit of brand new factory coilpacks - received no reply.
Going off here say to evaluate the effectiveness of your own product not only does not justify claims of more power potential, better spark etc - it doesn't prove anything at all.
I'd love to see a cheaper product outperform, but there's no solid evidence of that - except that they work.
--
For a TSI installation (read:cheap), Bosch coils are king. CDI is much dearer and has its downsides (depends on the application).
Im interested to know what the new GTR runs for ignition, there was one at the local workshop pushing 350awkw and 10-10.5:1 AFR's (sub 10's OEM) with standard everything (turbos, airfilters, exhausts, intercoolers). Complete burn, nice and clean. |
Scott Wilkes
Goo Roo
Tasmania
92 TT Factory Manual, 70 HG GTS Monaro
Posts: 1153
Reg: 10-2008
|
im running the superspark coils, and so is alot of other people on here. So far no breakdown at 21 PSI of boost  |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3128
Reg: 07-2005
|
Doesn't prove anything further Scott.
I did that for 3 years and over 60,000kms. Several track days, mountain runs and daily driving in a range of climates. 300rwkw through an unopened 1JZ at 22psi with OEM coilpacks made in 1989.
Keyword is outperform - as they claim to - OEM units. Without proof, real world or otherwise - it's just marketing spin.
The chances are they will outperform, given that TSI systems have made some ground since the 80's. But i expect a coilpack 'manufacturer' to be able to prove it.
What happened to that 1000hp(?) Supra testing these units? |
Steven Nanevski
Goo Roo
New South Wales
BF Ford Falcon XR8 MKII
Posts: 2125
Reg: 07-2005
|
Might want to give them a general nudge again, see if they will budge Cihan. I know you prob couldn't be bothered, but I don't think there is a better engine (at the moment anyway), that you could test these superspark coilpacks on. Hopefully they reply anytime soonish... |
Scott Wilkes
Goo Roo
Tasmania
92 TT Factory Manual, 70 HG GTS Monaro
Posts: 1154
Reg: 10-2008
|
it proves so far that they are reliable at this current time. I cant base them on standards, as i never had a problem with the standard coils either. Just bought these as it was hard to pass up and its handy to have spares in the back pocket haha.
If you notice, they only claim that they may perform roughly 10% compared to the originals due to the fact the originals are getting on in age and with use they do eventually degrade and create a higher internal resistance.
Either way, so far so good, havnt heard anything bad about them yet, but with everything, time will tell all |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2589
Reg: 03-2006
|
Nah, thats just it, it doesnt prove reliability. Unless 6 months of good use is what youd call a reliable product and then go on to say its at LEAST as good as o.e.m. |
Scott Wilkes
Goo Roo
Tasmania
92 TT Factory Manual, 70 HG GTS Monaro
Posts: 1158
Reg: 10-2008
|
they have proven them self up until this time reliable, so so far yes they are reliable. Mind you after 18 years of use (well 14 with mine as it sat in a garage for 4 haha) the stockers never let me down either.
That is one of the large reasons i am holding onto them as they are crack free and pretty much perfect.
Like i said time will tell, so far so good, they have proved reliable so far, will they still be reliable in 2 years?, who knows, that time has yet to arrive.
I am not saying they are "better" So far im saying they are proving them selves to be on par with OEM coils, the keyword here being "so far"
Personally i wouldnt of bought them at the full price,would of spent that little extra and got factories, but at 250 who can complain? haha. |
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder
Posts: 5740
Reg: 03-2006
|
I reckon whoever got a Set from Jamie should send them to Cihan for some testing !!!
No BS then is there ;) |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2704
Reg: 03-2006
|
Cihan, whats you're recipe for an ignition system? Im looking at the ford coils and the haltech igniter, (with the e11v2 of course). |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3138
Reg: 07-2005
|
Mate the ford coils with the Microtech igniter (good unit) in Cam's 1.5JZ running at 3ms make a naked spark to an unmachined surface from about 30cm away. Strong lightning bolt. Just a supersized spark. At 430rwwkw running sub 11:1 AFR's it ran flawlessly to 8,000rpm with 1.1mm of gap using copper NGK plugs. He compared it to LS1 coils at 5ms on the same workbench and they were weak in comparison.
Last week i tuned one of the Millenium motorsport built Supra's with T88 and all the good gear. Even with a CDI amp using 'Haltech' dual pole coils in wasted spark i had to run under 0.8mm by 430rwkw and it wasn't perfect.
So the new Bosch EL/AU coils (they're 3 times better than the original model, according to a Bosch rep) with a good igniter in sequential mode would be kick ass. Will work with the OEM igniter also but it might not output enough.
Ill be running 8 of these in the 2UZ, probably with two of the newer x4 igniters ($125 each) ;) |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2791
Reg: 03-2006
|
Why the increased dwell on the test bench? I dont suppose you run them at more than 2.5ms when they are under load? |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3191
Reg: 07-2005
|
To make sure they're fully charged!
Nah no reason mate, i believe they were set to 3ms initially (didn't check it), after a coil failed it was dropped back to where it should have been.
Would have made SFA difference on the 'test bench'.
I'm pretty set on using these coils, good bit of kit for the money. |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2803
Reg: 03-2006
|
Ahh, I see!
Well, I am on an epic journey chasing this ignition problem Ive been having, gone through complete wiring continuity tests, ecu, coil pack and ignitor swaps, and now, after getting the haltech sent away and repaired, im getting dodgy home signals.
So, swapped out both cam sensor, checked against each other for resistance, still no signal.
Im leaning towards the crank angle sensor. Im gonna swap in another one, and check its resistance, and if thats not it, hope to dear jeebus that its the crank sprocket 'ninja star' trigger thingy thats buggered. Hopefully just spinning freely, and awaiting replacement.
Been very good learning experience, the sheer number of checks that the JZ engine does before saying 'yes' to spark is amazing, guess thats one more reason you can lean on them so hard without breaking them.... |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3203
Reg: 07-2005
|
Mate sounds like a pain...
Can't believe its dragged on this long hey.
At this stage you should have an RPM signal that's steady and a home count registering something at least.
Without a home it won't spark.
'tiggers since last home' count should be 24 if you log it.
Should only need one cam angle sensor, front or rear doesn't matter, the only difference will be the trigger angle setting ~60's or ~90's.
multitooth 24 & 1
tooth offset = 10
trigger edge and home edge = falling
trigger and home type = reluctor
direct fire, spark edge = falling, constant charge 2.4ms for OEM coilpacks.
Also are you sure you're wiring is good for the trigger and home? Are you grounding the blue wires to signal ground? |
Brendan Harsh
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer GT-T VVT-i Manual
Posts: 35
Reg: 02-2007
|
Does anyone know how you would set up a powerful ignition system like this, to use on a 1jz vvt-i running standard waste spark and a Haltech e11v2???
Target power 300rwkw... |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3249
Reg: 07-2005
|
In my experience the stock vvti batch igniter and coilpacks are good for 320-350rwkw on a vvti 1jz running normal afr's with the right turbo. They'll do more with smaller plug gaps, but as soon as you're tuning for circuit and advance and fuel are out of the comfort zone it'll drop a lot of power / misfire.
Sitting on top of a 2j variant, i've taken them to 370rwkw at 0.7mm gap no problem running a vipec v88 standalone.
Spark edge is falling, constant charge of 2.4-2.6ms is how they're setup.
If you're after a 'powerful' setup, 6 bosch coils, ch # 1 = coils on cylinder 1 & 6
ch # 2 = coils on cylinder 2 & 5
ch # 3 = coils on cylinder 3 & 4
May work with the standard igniter, if not use a microtech 6 channel ($120) or OEM 1JZGTE non vvti igniter. |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3250
Reg: 07-2005
|
To add to that, i've ran a couple of D series LS2 coils on a few builds as of late, and they're pretty good in full sequential mode and OK running batch fire with 0.6mm or so gap.
Otherwise a HKS DLI coupled with the OEM ignition system is a winning combo with minimal headaches. |
Brendan Harsh
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer GT-T VVT-i Manual
Posts: 36
Reg: 02-2007
|
A lot of good info.
Thanks Cihan
I've now got a few more options to consider...
I didn't realise that the factory coils were so capable,
could I just use the microtech x6 box to replace the factory ignitor, then pair into the 6 inputs on the x6 and pair the outputs to the factory coils, or will this kill my coils? Any point in doing this?
I'd like to run a gap of at least 0.8 if I can... |
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z
Posts: 2882
Reg: 03-2006
|
I got the x6 microtech box wired in to the haltech. I tested it with the plugs and coil packs resting out on the cam cover.
Cranked it with 2.45ms charge, and whoopee, big blue, very blue sparks, 6 of them in fact! In the correct order!!!!
For only a few seconds, then they die down to the same state they were in beforehand. Took it to the monkey, for him to operate his oscilliscope thingy, and on the input side of the x6, AND on the output side also (being fed from the E11v2).
You can see the signal drop in from home to charge, rise to fire and go to home, then charge again, but the waveform gets flatter and flatter as the charge time drops as each signal passes.
New battery, earths checked, continuity checked again, haltech spoken to again, setting cross referenced in the haltech setup. Its quite deflating to see it fire into life for a couple of seconds 
Anyway I know Im close, and it will be something stupid....
Time for a new starter motor soon.... |
|
Previous
