Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 02:34 pm, by: Cihan Aday(Cihan)
David, personal opinion; if your forking out 80 thousand dollars on a car why not spend 120 thousand? No one that buys an 80 thousand dollar vehicle has financial difficulties, if they do their priorities are inside out. Fine its a nice car, but honestly.. why stop there, get an inline six twin turbo beemer and be done with it lol.
Lets see what happens when BMW releases the 240+kw I6 sequential TT people are talking about. We all know how good I6's with dual snails are
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:39 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
Cihan, being able to afford $80K or even $100K for a car does not mean you will find a $120K car value for money, nor even that you can "afford" it if you want to have other things of a similar standard in other areas of your life. Quite a few of the people with that money to spend got there because they recognised that what you spend on a car is not invested. Why stop at a BMW? Plenty of people (more or less) could sell their house and choose a Ferrari but what about the rest of their lives?
Oh, by the way, do you have a reference for this "twin-turbo BMW for $120K"? Are you sure it is not a diesel, for example, or has BMW quoted you a price? BMW has steadfastly never turbocharged any of its petrol engines to date so I was just wondering.
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 04:02 pm, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Simon I am sorry for you loss I only know of one failure occurring to the 3VZ.
That was at 180K due to the timing belt breaking, somehow only two values and one piston were damaged. That car had never a timing belt replaced or any other service as the owner from 80k topped up the oil when the light came on.
I can't believe the car got that far.
I spoke to the local toyota dealer the other month when I was getting my timing belt changed, he said he would love to pull one down one day to see what is on the inside. He then continued to say that not one camry from 93 onwards in a V6 has had an engine failure that they service, sure it is possible that other people have not contacted there dealer and sort a replacement engine else where but I have never heard of a zero known failure rate.
Not sure how robust they 3VZ are if you decide to make mods but I know of a few guys in the US which have found the engine outlast the drive train and the 3VZ camry's were capable of 12's and one guy achieved 12.1 1/4s. That is very good for a car of this weight given it is front wheel drive with a standard slow changing auto.
I cant find a fault other than not enough power for this engine, but then we always want more power.
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:30 pm, by: Cihan Aday(Cihan)
David Vaughan wrote on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:39 pm:
David, you'll find that that was precisely my point. No 60k+ car is 'value for money'. Thats why you pay thousands in luxury taxes.
If you can afford a 60-100k car without breaking the bank (which is what i implied before), why not spend 120k and finish up with something that has the looks, luxury and balls. For 60-80k id want more than a seemingly 'cliche' VVT 2.5L v6, as thats 1600kg of car we're talking about here.
BMW has the right idea. You get luxury, power and the looks in a 335i. Fine its not in the same class as the is250 and it wont be released until 2007, but the point im trying to convey should be clear. Why only spend 80k, when you could spend 120 and get everything you need.
Cheers, Cihan.
edit: the price point was probably a guess, it was the expected release point someone on another forum mentioned. It sounds reasonable, if not inflated, so the car on release may be cheaper.
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:44 pm, by: Ivor Miric(Ivor)
this is the pricing, PRICING 2.5L 6cyl Prestige Man Trans $53890*
2.5L 6cyl Prestige Auto Trans $56490*
2.5L 6cyl Sports Man Trans $67400*
2.5L 6cyl Sports Auto Trans $70000*
2.5L 6cyl Sports Luxury Auto Trans $78500*
the funny thing is when u say you could spend 120k and get everything. Not with bmw mate, there are thousands of dollars worth of extras to get everything you need. I think in the base model you dont even get leather seats, add a couple of thousand there etc. with lexus they have 5 price tags and thats it. Atleast when you ask how much is that. the dealer can tell you. 80k etc. with bmw you have to sit down and look at all the extras that you wont. here is an example. buy the way the m3 is priced at $137,900
have a look at the extras you have to pay Competition Package $10,900 BMW M alloy wheels – 19" tyres $2,950 Metallic paint $1,600 Electric sunroof – glass $2,750 Climate comfort windscreen $350 Spirit Nappa leather upholstery $1,550 Seat width adjustment incl. lumbar support $1,350 Seat heating for front seats $970 In-dash MD (Mini Disc) player4 $350 Hi-Fi 10 speaker system harman/kardon $775 Voice recognition system $900 Electric rear blind $860
when you add all that up it $160455 abit off your 120k
sorry for long post, not trying to insult you, its just i have had this convosation before!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 08:18 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
quote:
If you can afford a 60-100k car without breaking the bank ... why not spend 120k and finish up with something that has the looks, luxury and balls
If you do not know the answer to that you are probably pretty young. You seem to imagine that wealth reaches infinity at $60K+ cars, that once you can afford X then you can (and want to) afford 1.5X or 2X, so why do people who buy $30,000 cars not buy $45,000 cars? I promise you that most of them can "afford" it.
Dreams are fun and I have not even stopped dreaming at my age, but get real mate.
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 08:37 pm, by: David Vaughan(Davidv)
As an afterthought, I have made it pretty clear in previous posts scattered about the place that the is200/300/250 will out-handle a comparable 3-series and has superior luxury at a remotely comparable price, as Ivor made clear. To make the point further, it takes a 330 to beat the is300 on acceleration and for that you pay at least 25% more, before reaching comparability on luxury, and I can still blow it away in a bend. Ist klar?
I have test driven every four-door car with performance/prestige pretensions in the $50K-$100K range repeatedly in the years from 1996 to 2004 while buying three cars for me (not counting the Soarer) and two for other people. Had I not preferred the is300 I would now be driving a Mercedes C320. A BMW has been short listed three times in my lifetime car choices and lost every time, with no later regrets on any occasion. Clearly, you like BMWs and that is fine but I think the premium you seem willing to pay is not in the product.
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:44 pm, by: Dave Hart(Davyboy)
All BMW's are over priced. You can pick up 10 yr old 7 series for less than a tenth of their new price. Some Merc's are fairly cheap too, probably go forever but most are just a decent taxi.
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